Tuesday, September 26, 2006

Marvel Civil War: Clones, Racists, and Skrulls, Oh My?

CLICK HERE For The NEW Complete Marvel Civil War Review. (updated 2/21/07)

The following post was written after Marvel Civil War #4.

Where the hell are the real Tony Stark and Reed Richards? There is no way these people are the same guys we have all grown up reading.

How will we be able to look at Iron Man as a hero again?

No matter how you slice it, Reed Richards is responsible for the death of Goliath. He’s going to have to be held accountable.

I hope and pray that Marvel will give us a good explanation as to why everyone is acting so out of character.

Before you think I am breaking my own Commandment #7, let me state that I am really digging the story so far. It reads, looks and flows like a great movie. It has continually been unpredictable and given us some of the best cliffhangers in comic history. Nevertheless, I am starting to get worried as to how this thing is going to end. I do know...

The 5 worst ways to end Marvel's Civil War:

1. Peter Parker regains his secret identity when Ben Reilly returns to don the Spidey garb. This will allow both Spider-Man and Parker to be seen in public together.

2. We find out that these events never even happened. This super-power hating world is contained in a tether ball owned by Franklin Richards.

3. The Scarlet Witch wipes the mind of everyone on Earth and returns things to normal. Nah, they would never do anything that ridiculous.

4. We find out that Richards and Stark are from Bizzaro World. Damn, they actually might be acting screwy because they are from the Negative Zone.

5. Everyone’s a Skrull!

Regardless of how they end Civil War, Marvel needs to let it stick. I am sick of everything conveniently going back to normal.

In recent years, DC has been much better at character development than Marvel. Most Marvel books have been pretty much like a Star Trek episodes—totally interchangeable.

Now let me explain the picture at the top of this blog.

First, I want to make it clear that I am in NO WAY a fan of the Confederate flag or the South’s role in the real Civil War. I do however; think this picture shows just how idiotic some people’s views are concerning Marvel’s Civil War.

You see, I read a lot of blogs and forums, and over the past week I have been shocked at one recurring theme. It seems some of our fellow comic fans are convinced that the guys at Marvel are racists.

Apparently, Thor (who is a white supremacist wet dream—blond hair, blue eyes), killed Goliath because he was black. I thought it was a joke the first couple times I read it. By the fifth and sixth time, I was dumbfounded. What kind of glasses are you wearing to read Civil War #4 that way? In my opinion, you have to be quite a bigot yourself.

If the guys at Marvel were racist, do you think Luke Cage and Jessica Drew would have married and had a baby? Would Black Panther be a pivotal member of the Illuminati? I don’t think so.

Wait…Now that I think about it…Marvel did keep Bishop in Jerry Curls way to long.

What do you think?

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Blogger Jim said...

You can see my blog for what I think of Civil War, but I had no idea that some people saw Clor killing Black Goliath as racist. Wow, people can see whatever they want in a comic. I saw it as a waste of a character myself and thought if they are killing a character in issue #4 it needs to be a character a little further up the food chain. To me Goliath was a "C" or "D" tier character and they needed to be killing a Hawkeye level character to make it have a real impact.

Short version of what I think of Civil War is it sucks. It feels like a story idea that they just cast the Marvel characters in and the main players all come off of out of character.

4:11 AM, September 26, 2006  
Blogger Chad said...

When this series first came up I felt it had a lot of promise but am starting to get a little worried. Marvel has rarely put out a storyline that 1)Covers the entire Marvel universe and 2) (as already said) Actually sticks after the series ends. There has to be continuity. DC does a much better job of showing the effects of their storylines on ALL of the characters. They also at least try to to keep continuity. Marvel needs to get this under control. Having Reed Richards, the family man, responsible for killing another hero is just not believable. As for Irom Man, they should just kill him now. His character will never be the same. I still have my fingers crossed that the story will be good, and especially end good, but I have my doubts after issue #4.

As for the racist angle, I was wondering when that might come up. A few people in my office know I collect comic books and ask me questions every once in awhile about what is going on. We have a very wide range of ethnic groups. Europeans, Asians, Africans, Cuban's, South Americans, Australians, Blacks, and Canadians. I was telling them last week that Thor was coming back from the dead and was suppose to kill another hero. There was a good chance it was a black hero. About 7 of us were talking about this and I and everyone else jokingly said, "they just had to kill the black guy". Well, like Jim said, it was just a wasted death anyway. The same effect would have been gained by killing Herbie the robot. What would Reed Richards have done then??!! I don't in anyway think this was a racist move on Marvel's part but at the same time why kill Black Goliath when there are so few black heroes and he is, like Jim said, a D tier character. They just put him in the storyline specifically to die. At least kill Spiderman and then have him brought back to life by the Scarlett Witch :) Could happen you know!

Anyway, I hope the series shapes up. It really looked good at first.

5:12 AM, September 26, 2006  
Blogger 1 Right Opinion Comics said...

I agree with Goliath being a "D" character. I think he might have been a quick replacement to get caught up with deadlines. I think the plan was (or should have been), to kill Mary Jane. This would fit the story tremendously and prove Marvel is committed to change.

I still really like the story. I am hoping some of these inconsistencies will be explained.
Glass is half full type of thing.

7:21 AM, September 26, 2006  
Anonymous Ross said...

I am enjoying Civil War so far. But, I too am scared that we are going to get a St. Elsewere ending, where nothing actually happened, or everything is set back "right."

But seriously, how are we ever supposed to like Richards and Stark ever again? How are we supposed to look at them as heroes? If anything, Richards should be leaving Stark after causing Goliath's death. He ought to be devastated. I don't think Marvel has the cojones to change these major characters so drastically on a permanent basis. Though, in my opinion, the time is right for such changes. I mean, why not slowly transform Iron Man into a completevillain? We already suffer from a lack of creativity in new villains for our heroes anyway.

As far as the racism, I must say I'm not surprised. Some people are so full of anger and hate, that they look for racism in anything, and I am not just referring to blacks. If you look hard enough for it, you'll always find it if you want to. I don't for a second believe Marvel actually decided to kill him because he is back. There may even be other reasons in the story they chose him that we are not aware of. Like his friendship with Black Panther. This may be a way to get T'Challa directly involved now, as before he wanted to stay out of the conflict completely.

11:22 AM, September 26, 2006  
Blogger Chad said...

Ahh, I didn't think about the Black Panther tie in. That could work, and would explain everything. I am pretty sure Panther and Storm get involved in this next month. It will be interesting to see if this is how the story goes. I just hope that ALL of these issues are somehow covered more thoroughly. I may have missed it but I don't even know why most of the people on each side chose their side. Why is Hercules with Cap?? Why was Black Goliath with him?? Did I miss an issue somewhere.

I agree with Ross, why not just make Iron Man a complete villian at this point. His character will never be the same. I grew up reading comics in the 70's and 80's. The Avengers were my favorite comic by far. Marvel 2 in 1 was a close second but I read any comic I could get me hands on. Iron Man was always a stand-up guy, except the drunk years of course. It would have been nice if they had developed the background for Iron Man and Reed feeling this way MUCH more on the front end. I still think it is a good story, and can be great but after issue #4 some major story development needs to take place.

Ross, I agree completely with your view on racism. It is everywhere, and can be found anywhere. Hopefully this part of the story will all be explained in time to end any controversy.

Hopefully ALL of the story will be better explained.

1:37 PM, September 26, 2006  
Blogger 1 Right Opinion Comics said...

Very interesting you guys.

Let's hope that there truly is a reason for all of these seeming inconsistencies. Marvel may have something up their sleeves.

Hey everyone else, quit emailing me personally. Some of you have some good points that others would like to hear.

Jim, I have finally figured out how to link you to my page. Thanks for all your input.

3:27 PM, September 26, 2006  
Blogger Cogit8tor said...

I share the frustration over Civil Wars expressed by Richard and many others adding comments.

One can hope that the Exiles will travel back early in this arc and make the whole sorry thing unhappen, if possible.

Marvel's writers' desire to critique the current Us versus Them American political climate is coming through loud and clear in the series, to the detriment of long-established characters. I'm not thrilled by the notion of a Superhero Illuminati, either, for that matter. They're men and women with super powers -- not super men -- and you know what they say about absolute power...

My 14-year-old daughter is particularly unhappy with the Runways/Young Avengers Civil War title. The characters seem lifeless, compared to how they appear in their own books.

I know we're all holding out hope that Marvel will pull a rhinocerus out of their hat and surprise us with excellence after all. I'm holding out hope, but I'm not holding my breath.

Memories of Franklin's pocket universe and Wanda's hyperhex still rankle.

Who'd have thought that the company that created Bat-Mite and Beppo the Supermonkey could out-Marvel Marvel with 52 and other fine titles? Ralph Dibney's looking like one really scarey guy these days.

My best -- Cogit8tor

8:04 PM, September 27, 2006  
Blogger Ryanetics said...

hmmm.... I am pretty sure I disagree with all of you here. I personally love where Civil War is going and don't have a problem with the characters actions/motivations.

The way I see it, Tony Stark is and always has been Donald Rumsfeld in Magnum P.I.'s body. He is a billionaire defense contractor, former secretary of state, recovering alcoholic, ladies man/letch. I mean his suit is cool but nothing about him has ever seemed very heroic to me. He is a government man who stands to make a lot of money by "following the law." I don't see how that doesn't make sense.

As for Reed, I think we are throwing back to the old school Reed that let science come before anything else and drove a wedge between he and Sue. Add to that the fact that once again the FF are broke (and getting the contract to build the Negative Zone prison will means boatloads of cash for FF inc.) and it seems like that all makes sense.

On top of all of this let's not forget that some of these guys just feel like they have to follow/enforce the rule of law whether they agree with it or not.

I don't know how much of a difference it makes but I have been reading all of the related titles and the lead in stories and when I look at the events as a whole, Civil War pretty much rules.

When Bendis outed Daredevil people were pissed but it has led to years of dynamic, mature and original stories - big changes like the events of Civil War may be a gamble on Marvel's part to trust their collective gut instincts and see where this takes them for the next few years.

Considering this whole thing was concieved by Bendis and Millar - two of the best writers out there - I am content not to second guess and just see where this all takes us.

My guess for what's next?

Peter has already turned on Tony this week which we all saw coming but still rules.

Sue hits up Namor (who already has the sleeper cell thing happening in Frontline) for help and Black Panther brings Wakanda into the mix once he learns of his friend Goliath's death.

Perhaps another Atlantean invasion of Manhattan to stop the madness from spreading at the hands of the Red Skull who seems determined to take this war global?

With the Hulk's return to Earth as a wildcard (could he return with Galactus in tow??) who the hell knows what will happen but I bet it will be big.

I love it.

And as for DC besting Marvel with Infinite Crisis and 52, hardly. I just can't hang with the big shiny godlike characters of the DCU. I prefer my heroes flawed. Make Mine Marvel!

12:17 PM, September 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When it comes 2 the race card,it's just some reverse psychology of being a bigot! I shake my head or turn the channel when i read and hear stuff crap like that! Do you see the Jews complaining and they had it a lot worse! So in reality:Get Over it!!! It wasn't you,it was another generation. Keep in mind that there's a bad apple in every bunch,but it doesn't make it the majority! D'uh!
Anyway back 2 the story at hand,Civil War is the best thing that has came 2 Marvel in a long time,thanks Bendis.(heroes reborn,a joke) I think the realness in comics should be more. Iron Man's is my all-time favorite character besides Shang-Chi. R.I.P. Banshee but,after seeing the cloned Thor on the operatin' table...i was in awe. I couldn't believe that Tony would stoop that low...he has 2 hit rock bottom after this scenario wraps up. He faked his death,he lied about not being Iron,then he came out about being Iron Man(mike grell's run) just 2 venture off a little bit here,I was glad 2 see a well known writer/arstist of that calibre on the book. 2 bad that the reviews got him kicked off so the storyline never really ended like it was supposed 2. But whatever happens 2 Stark he deserves it. We all remember "Demon in the Bottle" Marvel can't bring back Justin Hammer,he's dead in space somewhere. The other millionare Bane,Shane whatshisname did the cop out of repulsoring himself at close range so i'm thinkin' in the near future 4 Tony,reprocussions will be dramatic. It has 2 be. Lives are being lost so far. The Cap and Iron Man who's right and who's wrong reminds me of the movie Face-Off. The Civil War is personal,being told in 7 issue is gonna be a bigger problem in the long run. It can't be explained in that short amount of time unless they double-size oone of the issues. I don't like spin-offs because then it tends 2 be favortism 2 which ever character the story wraps up in. That's a cop out 2 me 2. I'm anxious 2 see how it wraps up.

2:26 PM, September 30, 2006  
Blogger jNeal said...

Well, I was advised to post a comment, so hear I go:
I was a skeptic regarding the registration act. I thought it was, well, bad. I was thinking from the standpoint of the Constitution, not some emotional, knee-jerk reaction.

However, as I was reading various interviews by JoeQ, he brought out a sympathetic argument for the Act: what if you were walking down the street, to your local bank, and there were robbers in ski masks and submachineguns causing mayhem, robbing said bank.

Meanwhile, police don't arrive or any deputized authorities, just other people disguised in skimasks, brandishing submachineguns, and one of them quipping, "Don't worry, sir. We got this situation under control." And they in turn cause mayhem and destruction, including PERSONAL property damage.

How would you feel, if someone unaccountable decides to just skirt the law, and to just follow his own personal code? What about the dictum stated by the English political philosopher who is credited to saying, "the right to swing my fist ends where your nose begins"? What are you gonna say, "hey, go ahead and put me in the financial hole. My fanboy sensitivities demand it! My insurance company won't cover it because they just gone bankrupt. But hey! It's all good!"

Also, at the founding of our nation, we rejected the rule of a king and we established the Constitution to be our law. It looks to me Captain America wants to be King Steve, His-Holy-Deified-How-Dare-You-Actually-Question-My-Pure-Motives-Never-My-Behavior-Unaccountable-To-Nothing-Accept-My-Whims-You-Pathetic-Peasants, Dictator for Life.

Everyone is ganging up on Tony. He's the one making the hard decisions. I'm sure everyone is making hard decisions all the time. I'm sure everyone reading this does his level best making the most of a bad situation. That's what Tony's doing.

Oh, and before everyone goes crying about Goliath, did anyone notice what he did BEFORE he died? He picked up a tanker, THREW it at SHIELD agents, as an afterthought, very likely killing them. And before you go, "That's their job." I know police officers. They put their lives on the line everyday. They don't know whether or not they will go home alive. My cousin was kept alive because my aunt bought his kevlar vest because the mayor wanted to use the money for strippers and crack instead.

When I saw Goliath throw the tanker at those SHIELD agents, I saw an image of that druggy pick up his shotgun, aim it at my cousin, and attempt to kill him. So before you start going on about Tony and Reed being held accountable for ONE death (that is bearing heavy on their hearts), imagine what is going on in their hearts.

At the funeral, you can almost see Tony wanting to call it quits, but that mother tells him her dead son's favorite hero was Iron Man and his favorite toy was the Iron Man action figure, which she gives him. Think about, he tries to be the one voice of reason, but everyone is too busy being emotional, too busy obsessing over grey areas and never once asking what is right, even though everyone will reject me. What is true heroism, going along with the crowd in a mob mentality or finishing the course alone?

If a cop shoots someone, you will have everyone condemn him before the facts are played out: He is guilty until proven innnocent. We are just like some opportunistic lawyer looking to ruin the career of a decent man just to set a criminal free. Not only that, there will be a hearing and investigation to make sure that cop didn't do anything wrong, like making a snap judgment defending his life.

Oh, by the way, does anyone remember the plot to Kingdom Come, about "heroes" who decided they are unaccountable to no one? If you have a problem with Tony in Civil War, then don't have a problem with the Rogues in Kingdom Come. Go ahead and call Superman and Batman fascists for daring to bring those "heroes" to account for the flippant attitude they had for innocent bystanders.

Also, has anyone else noticed that opponents to Registration are monarchs (Black Bolt, Namor, T'Challa)?

10:53 PM, October 07, 2006  
Blogger johnny39 said...

First off, jneal made a great post. I agree with the registration in the real world, but is it what we want from our beloved comic adventurers? This is suppossed to be our escape. An attempt to separate ourselves from reality for a short while. Why do we have to be reminded of the unstable world we live in now while reading the adventures of Captain America and Iron Man?

Why? These characters were created during unstable times and took the personality of a hero during that time. Cap and Iron Man were designed to be heroes that we could look up to, fight against pure hatred with, and create a better world with. Civil War doesn't put them out of character. Marvel comics keeping up with the world today puts them out of character. Anyone who thinks either Cap or Iron Man is wrong or acting as they shouldn't needs to pick up a newspaper or check out CNN once in a while.

There is more and more grey in our comics and that's alright. It just reflects how we're living now. The black and white during Cap's inception is gone. There isn't a band of Nazis with armbands stomping across Europe hoping for world domination. There are individuals with small followings trying to make a statement.

So many individuals that no one is unquestioned, no one is above the others, and everyone has to answer for what they may have or have not done.

5:59 PM, October 12, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have to jump to the defense of the Iron Man character here. The man has always bent the rules, sure, and he enjoys the finer things in life, sure. But first and foremost, Tony Stark has always been a man of integrity and compassion. A man for whom the thought of his inventions being used against innocent people wracked him with so much guilt that be became a fugitive (and faked Iron Man's death) and temporarily lost friends (Captain America) just to make things right. He's the guy who gave Scott Lang (Ant-Man II) and Clay Wilson (Force) second chances. He's the guy who saw the need for an organized super-hero squad and finances it. He's the guy who paid for Jarvis's mother's medical bills. He's the guy who has been an alcoholic, homeless, paralyzed, stricken with a heart condition, penniless, and always manages to come back. He's always been one of Marvel's greatest heroes.

What is being done to his character now is a disgrace.

5:22 AM, November 28, 2006  
Anonymous True Avenger Fan said...

"Considering this whole thing was concieved by Bendis and Millar - two of the best writers out there - I am content not to second guess and just see where this all takes us."

First may I say that that cooment is a JOKE!!! Mark Millar maybe...up until Civl War, but Bendis. I will never get how people think this guy is a great writer. All this guy ever does when he gets a book is kill people. Total shock value. He might be one of the most un-original writers in comics today. House Of M was a shambles and was already done 20 years earlier...Lets see:

1) All Powerful Female Mutant
2) Starting to lose control
3) Becoming all powerful
4) creating turmoil on her team
5) Married to one of the main characters
6) Fellow teamates to decide what to do with her.

The guy destroyed the greatest team of heroes in the Marvel universe, the Avengers and turned them into an X-book.

I aggree with one of the posters who said that comics are an escapism. people deal with their real lives on a daily basis and look foward to reading a little fantasy to escape and dream a little. I want to see The Avengers off on some galactic planet preventing some war, The FF battling Doom and and Galactus, I want to see Thor in Asgard battling Loki and all that great Asgardian mythology. Thats what made the Marvel Universe so great. DC definitely has it going on right now.

9:36 AM, December 02, 2006  
Blogger longtimereader said...

Marvel's civil war is a joke. The more I read it, the more I think that it's an episode of the Twighlight Zone where is everything is turned on it's ear. No one is acting like themselves which is what I'm bothered by the most. Spiderman revealing his identity to the world was the worst decision so far. It also exemplifies why the is one of the worst miniseries Marvel has ever come up with.
The depiction of Tony Stark, Reed Richards and Hank Pym is deplorable. Creating clones, killing and imprisoning fellow heroes. The whole thing is outrageous. However this thing ends, I don't think anyone will be satisfied.
I wanted to comment on the whole racist angle. It bothers me when people who can't and don't see the possibility of racism always accuse the accuser of being the thing he/she accused. First, let me say that I don't think Marvel is racist nor having Thor kill Bill Foster was a racist act by the creators.
The problem is, is that Bill Foster was the only hero killed out right by the other side. It appears racist because Bill Foster is African American. Historically, in one form of media or the other, The person of color has always been displayed as expendable. If Thor had really went on a rampage and killed or maimed more heroes, then it would have just been a blip on the radar. Instead, it was the only blip and that has caused controversy. I also think it was intended to do just that, which is something I as a long time reader don't appreciate.
Marvel, more specifically the creators of this series, have failed to really think things through. I read some of their interviews at Newsarama. They are too busy patting themselves on the back for a pretty weak job. I think this series is going to go down as another secret wars 2, a lot of potential, but poor execution.

2:37 PM, February 08, 2007  
Anonymous Jonathan Nolan said...

I think there is a serious error of logic committed here by the "geniuses" at Marvel-- for the record they are the reason I stopped reading comics.

Unlike the Watchmen, which this is a direct ripoff of, right down to the registration Act, the Marvel writers have not dealt correctly with the universe they are current custodians of.

Marvel's unverse is NOT our Earth. It is a world that has always had costumed superbeings. Therefore it is a gross and illogical storyline in Civil War since it is NOT our world being perverted in this series and Marvel earth has NOT suddenly had to deal with superheroes. Rules, Acts, provisions and so on would have been in place for untold centuries and certainly for many decades well before the time of Civil War.

This whole stupid crappy thing is an attempt to make it up as they go along and compete with DC. I am overjoyed that it has failed miserably.

2:07 AM, February 09, 2007  
Anonymous viagra online said...

well I finish to read this saga maybe some parts really disappoint me, yes that act in where the heroes are divided in two bands, well in my personal opnion is a real crap.

9:12 AM, July 15, 2010  

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